Commentators have complained about the authoritarian regime in Armenia and its oligarchic structure (which will become dependent for business on the open border) but who exactly has elected this "authoritarian" regime? The Turkish electorate has not elected the Armenian government, so the blame for any problems should be laid at the feet of those Armenians who elected the oligarchs in the first place. Any foreign citizen can now buy land in Armenia for residential purposes without any Special Residency Permit or citizenship, so what is the point in crying over lands which have been lost or in worrying about a border? Armenia does not have any borders. Read: Paragraph 8 of the Article 64 of the Land Code removing the restriction on foreign ownership of land. The Armenian army cannot defend Armenia against an invasion of Turks, Iranians or Azeris armed with cheque-books.

I consider fromturkey, an open minded person and if there were more Turks like him Armenian-Turkish dialog would make more progress. It is true that in some regions Armenians were the largest ethnic group (but still a minority). But the land had been ruled by ottomans for several centuries. But also important is that Turks and Kurds considered Anatolia their homeland also. So Wilson's arbitration, meaning that many Turks and Kurds would live under Armenian control was a big factor in the new nationalism of Mustafa Kemal. What use was it to draw the boundaries and then do nothing to uphold them? The result? A Turkish invasion of Armenia at the end of September 1920

www.votch.org online signitures against the protocols.

Lolopeeg, I dont care about your overall evaluation of my comments. Again, not to discuss but only to remind, Armenians were not 40% of the population east to Adana, but much less. "Whether or not the Armenians were a "minority" as you suggest is beside the point--the fact is that 1.5 million or more western Armenians were dispossessed of their homes, lands and properties by force." I totally agree, I am not a denier. I donot try to blame Armenians for the way they were treated by Ottoman rule. Think twice before treating me like an ordinary Turk on the streets; by the way, if I still look like them for you, it is your problem.

To "From Turkey": Your comments are nothing more than "trash talk", as they say in sports. Pres. Wilson determined the western boundary based on his best judgement. He did not require a precise or detailed demographic analysis to arrive at a conclusion. His determination, nevertheless, was remarkably fair for the Turks. In 1914, Armenians constituted about 40% of the population in the territory east of the line from Adana to Samson, but Wilson only awarded about 20% of this territory to Armenia. Trebizond was given to Armenia based on recognition that a seaport was essential for Armenia's future economic development. Whether or not the Armenians were a "minority" as you suggest is beside the point--the fact is that 1.5 million or more western Armenians were dispossessed of their homes, lands and properties by force. This was a universally accepted fact at the time; today, despite Turkish revisionist claims to the contrary, it remains an accepted fact by numerous nations and governments, including the USA.

To fromturkey, There are no universally accepted demographic statistics, either as to the total number of "Muslims" or the break-down of "Muslims" into Turks, Kurds and others. In the statistics cited by Armenians, even in an area where Turks or Kurds might have been a majority of the Muslims, in most cases taken alone, they still did not represent a plurality - the Armenians did. And, in addition to Turks, Kurds, and Armenians, there were also substantial populations of Assyrians and in some areas Greeks, Yezidis and other non-Muslims that also need to be counted, i.e., the demographic situation was not as simple as Armenians on the one hand and Muslims on the other hand. Do note, however, that Sivas was not included in the arbitration award and its demographic make-up may have been part of the reason. The argument that Turks and Kurds should be counted together as Muslims is an old one and not convincing. Certainly, at the time, there was already the beginnings of Kurdish nationalism and localized rebellions that would lead to a major general Kurdish rebellion in the early years of the Turkish Republic (which was, of course, brutally suppressed by the Kemalists). And certainly today, we see that Turks and Kurds are very different nationalities, despite throughout the history of the Turkish Republic decades of pseudo-scholarship, forcing Kurdish school children everyday to recite they are Turks (i.e., not Kurds), the ideological propagation of the myth of "Mountain Turks", repression and criminalization of Kurdish culture and language, and the destruction and internal displacement, even as late as the 1990s, of thousands of Kurdish villages. Counting Turks and Kurds together as "Muslims" is convenient, but far from convincing.

es hargumem paron Raffi hovhanisyani elut@ es hamadzynem ayt karciqi het qani vor na miak martne vor ir pashtonavarman vaxt hragarkan tvec vorovhetev nachisht marte chusht mtacume chisht datapartum

Hay-turqakan sahmani bacman shurj Hayastani voch legitim ishxanutyunneri hertakan arkacn e, vory ete voch aysor, apa vaxy kberi Hayastani korcanman. Cavoq ishxanakan burgy chuni qaxaqakan kamq` ynddimanalu otarerkrya chnshumnerin u pordzum e katarel qayler, voronq mexm asac davachanakan en.

"they outnumbered both Turks and Kurds if the two peoples were counted separately rather than lumped together as "Muslims". " This is not true, for example in Bitlis almost all the muslim population was Kurds. And great majority of muslims in Sivas and Erzurum was Turks. Turks and Kurds mostly lived in seperate regions were Armenians were like islands in this Turkish-Kurdish sea. And it is very wrong to divide the muslim population as Turk-Kurd for those times. Dividing Alevi and Sunni populations was much realistic for then. Those times were times of religious differences rather than ethnic differences.

Raffi Hovannisian must become the next president of Armenia. Will be good for all Armenians.

To fromturkey, Re: Demographics. There are no universally-accepted statistics (including the official Ottoman statistics which have been demonstrated to be unreliable) on the demographics of the Armenian vilayets on the eve of the genocide. However, on the Armenian side, there is general agreement with the Turkish and your position that the Armenians no longer represented a majority in the six vilayets, with the exception of the Van sanjak (which lost its Armenian majority through gerrymandering when Hakkari was included in the vilayet). Obviously, the Armenians lost their majority due to Ottoman policies - the movement of Kurdish populations northword, the settlement of muhacirs in Armenian areas and the massacres and pogroms antecedent to the genocide (most notably the Hamidian and Adana massacres, but many pogroms of a more localized nature as well) which took hundreds of thousands of lives and resulted in huge emigration of Armenians out of these areas. The Armenian side, however, notes that despite the fact that Armenians no longer enjoyed a majority, they were a plurality - i.e., they outnumbered both Turks and Kurds if the two peoples were counted separately rather than lumped together as "Muslims". This is obviously the more correct approach unless one still considers Kurds to be "Mountain Turks." Unfortunately, it is an approach still eschewed by the advocates of the Turkish statistics. In fact, it was the elimination of the Armenian plurality that led to the creation of a Kurdish, not Turkish, majority in much of Eastern Turkey today. Re: Wilsonian Armenia. The arbitration of the Turkish-Armenian border was not made arbitrarily. It was undertaken over many months by the Committee upon the Arbitration of the Boundary between Turkey and Armenian that was established by the State Department. It had access to vast resources including those of the American peace delation and the Harbord mission. Its decision was based on ethnic, geographic, military and economic considerations. You'll note that the award incorporated less than half of the Armenian ask (you can compare the award to the Armenian claims at the peace conference). At the same time it gave more territory to Armenia than the Turkish ask. That's the nature of an arbitration - neither side gets what it wants. You are right on Trabzon - other than during brief periods of Armenian history, it was not part of the Armenian homeland. However, the arbitrators included it in the award in order to give Armenia access to the sea, which they saw as vital to Armenia's viability as a state - they did not award Armenia the Cilician coast on the Mediteranean which was part of the traditional Armenian homeland and Trabzon was the compromise that would have given Armenia an outlet to the sea with more defensible borders. Obviously, much of Armenia's problems today stem from the fact that the de facto border has left it landlocked. To Arevelk, Don't want to leave any misimpression. I vehemently opppose the protocols for the reasons stated in my post. I do unequivocably support diplomatic relations and the opening of the border without preconditions - which, unfortunately, is not the case of the protocols.

These Turkish efforts to normalize the ties with Armenia is based on a new world view and espacially of its region. Turkey signed or is going to sign many important agreements with syria and Iraq (also turkey signed important arrengements with Russia a couple months ago). In the 90´s we were close to war with Syria but last week we abandon visa between us and are going to sign strategic economical arrengements like with Iraq soon. The Plan is a integration of these economics. If you look at the Ties from Russia and Turkey you will see similar devolopments. So what I want to say is, that these Countrys realized that in these new Globalized world, you need cooperation and Partners to be able to compete in political and economical ways. The Region is in a change and i would advise our armenian neighbours to search for ways to jump on the bandwagon.

To Anahit, Yes I understand your reservations. Diplomatic relations without preconditions on either side seems to be a good beginning. Turkey and Armenia can become good partners. In future probably Russia, Turkey and maybe Iran will form an economic bloc. Armenia, Azerbaijan and maybe Georgia can join this group. Thousands of Armenians visit Turkey on vacation, especially to Antalya. As relations improve, it is possible that the next generation of Turkish leaders offer compensation. To Gor Ottoman Turkey was a powerful empire. Yes empires are built on conquest and bloodshed. But empires are built when neighbors are weak. Armenians were not good fighters at the time, or were not united. Even in 1920, when Turkish forces arrived in Kars, I heard that Armenian generals in the city were asleep. Who is to blame?

Ranjbar, a short history lesson for you: The so-called Armenian Patriarchate Statistics say that there are totally 1,018,000 Armenians in the six vilayets. According to the Ottoman registration statistics it is 784,917 with 3,173,918 muslims. So Armenians make up 19% of the population in six vilayets Ranjbar jan. If we take into account the Armenian Patriarchate statiscs which claims 1,432,000 (good invention really) for muslim population, this gives us 39% for the Armenian population ratio in the six vilayets, with 55% for Muslims. By the way, Armenian Patriarchate statistics is much less reliable than the one of the Ottomans, cuz it divides the muslims population into subgropus as Kızılbash,Circassians, Gypsies, Laz, etc. It is really funny :) How can Patriarchate count Gypsies or Laz? It is clear that the guy writing those tried to show Turks as a minority. Even for some vilayets, Ottoman statistics give larger numbers for Armenian population compared to Patriarchate statistics. "Read the demographics from several sources and then compare." Please share them here and embarrass me Ranjbar jan.

At this point every mean is allowed to put the S.S. and his regime down. S.S. does not represent Aremenia's interest anymore. These protocols might be only good for a few oligarchs/gangsters and a few businessmen, or a few petty traders (charchi) who think how to make their savings from 200 dollar to 300 dollar. In general these protocols are very dangerous and the frist step of Armenia's capitulation/strkatsum. How can S.S. agree to these protocols? He is either fool or he does not care a iota. Who have to (begin) seeing Turkey with its current Anti-Armenian policies as a country that wants to destroy this Armenian state too. Accordingly Armenia MUST change its WHOLE policy towards Turtey until Turkey...... Wake up, Armenians and open your eyes. At least open your eyes THIS TIME.

fromturkey; The Wilson arbitral award is THE ONLY legal and binding border between Armenia and Turkey. NOTHING and NOONE can change or annul this award. So, Armenia WILL ALWAYS be the LEGAL owner of the lands within this award. That's why Turky wants NO Armenian state (and Armenians). If Turkey thinks that the award is not fair, it is Turkey's problem. Turkey agreed the matter to be settles by an award. About fairness: Look at Turkey- the whole history and borders of Turkey is based on blood and UNfairness.

To From Turkey, Neither were the Turks in the majority in the "six vilayets" demarcated by the Ottomans. Moush, Bingyol, etc were never provinces on their own any. Shows your lack of geographic knowledge. Read the demographics from several sources and then compare. In fact, Armenians constituted, relatively speaking, majority minorities in the six vilayets.

Would those who voted for Serj now admit they voted for him? These people, too, must feel deceived because he never said he was going to sell out Artsakh and Armenian genocide. Armenians deserve to know.

If the protocol is ratified by the Armenian Parliament, then the Turks have achieved their final objective. Neither the Armenian Genocide nor its rightful and historical lands should be under question or discussion. Peace will only come to the region when justice prevails, i.e. the restoration of the "true" Armenian homeland and reparation for the crimes of the past as committed by the Turks. Mr. Serzh Sarkisian, please do not travel to Turkey and uphold the Armenian rights. If you pursue the current state of affairs, you will betray all Armenians- both those who suffered in past and those who will fall victim, yet again!

I thought Mr. Hovannisian was a smart, realistic politician. However, these words proved he wasn't so. "In the aftermath of the Armenian Genocide, President Woodrow Wilson fixed Turkey’s boundary with Armenia in an arbitral award issued under U.S. presidential seal. This remains the only binding demarcation of the Turkish-Armenian frontier in accordance with an agreement between sovereign and independent Turkish and Armenian states." Mr. Hovannisian by reviving the Wilsonian Armenia, may think he is cool, but his claims are really dumb? According to which numbers,estimates and facts were those Wilsonian borders determined? When did Trabzon and blacksea coasts become Armenian land? Mr. Hovannisian either thinks that people are fools or he should read a little bit history. Does he know that Armenians were a minority in Erzeroum, Moosh, Van, Bingöl for centuries and even in 23 April 1915?

Arevelk, I don't read the article that Raffi is demanding (or not demanding) Wilsonian Armenia. I read it that he is simply saying let's open the border and establish diplomatic relations without preconditions - period. The Turkish ask for border recognition should not be reflected in the protocols, but be part of a basket of issues that would be discussed and resolved through a genuine and presumably lengthy reconciliation process - not a shot-gun wedding. All of us know that Turkey is a military power and member of NATO and Armenia will never initiate hostilities with Turkey to regain usurped lands or for any other reason. The Turks know this too. Still the border and genocide issues are part of Armenia's portfolio of political capital. That's why Turkey is so insistent on a weakened Armenia agreeing to surrender on these issues ahead of anything else and that's also why they should not be irrevocably surrendered for diplomatic relations and the opening of the border, both of which Turkey can reverse the day after or a month after or a year after the protocols are resolved or as soon as it disagrees with Armenia's policies on Karabakh or other matters. The de jure/de facto border issue also has potential economic importance even to the extent unresolved since significant stretches of the Baku-Ceyhan and proposed Nabucco pipelines go through Wilsonian Armenia (time to go after the pipeline companies for royalties?). I have always had an inner conviction that there are no two peoples in the region that have a greater potential as friends, neighbors and brothers, than Turks and Armenians. For this to happen, there needs to be a reconciliation but it has to be genuine - normalization of relations and the opening of the border is just the first step. A shot-gun wedding where issues which legitmately should be part of an ongoing and genuine process are predetermined won't bring about true reconciliation and will only lay the seeds for future enmity and hostility. One other issue bothers me - already we see that an authoritarian regime in Armenia to regain international legitmacy and preserve power will trade away the border and genocide issues for effectively zilch in return (since the border opening and establishment of diplomatic relations are reversible). If there is no true reconciliation prior to the border opening, what happens when Armenia's business class and oligarchic structure becomes dependent for business on the open border. They will now be a comprador element that will for reasons of their own profits support Turkish policy, even if not in Armenia's interests - Armenia's foreign (and in some cases domestic) policy then becomes hostage to Turkey. Something to think about.

Raffi, unlike Serzh is not a corrupt official. Serzh is corrupt to the core of his soul. This man is willing to sell everything Amenian with a few strokes of his pen. We, of course will not allow this monumental treachery. Every one single Armenian who causes harm to Armenia and its people will stand in front of an Armenian military tribunal and answer for their treacherous acts. Just wait and see...........unless Serzh has acquired some magical political acumen, and has a positive surprise for all Armenians, which will put us to shame, and bring glory and pride to Armenia and Armenians worldwide. Only time will tell...

What Mr. Hovannisian is saying is wake up people. His letter should be the catalyst for our nation to wake up and Diaspora and say no to this ill convinced protocols. Stop betrayal, pack your bags and leave if you have failed to promote Armenian interets. We do not need open borders with killers who want to profit from our national loss. The ratification of the protocols will break the will of the Armenians across the world, this will be a mortal blow thus we must make sure as people that this treason does not take place.

"Turkey’s strategy to shirk its obligations to Armenia under international law is to marginalize Armenia and to deny the Genocide" The root of the Turkish position is fear of loss of territory. Armenians were demonized in the last decades of the ottoman mainly because they feared an independent Armanian state. Most Armenian and Turkish political writers today fail to recognize that the majority of Armenians in the ottoman empire were an unpolitical, docile group. Certain Armenian groups put forward large territorial claims, increasing Turkish hostility. Today in Turkey there is much less demonization than there used to be. Raffi Hovanisian demanding the 1920 Wilsonian border is a mistake. I agree that the EU and the US have pipeline projects in mind, not Turkish-Armenian reconciliation

Baronian JAPAN?? They got nuked in to submission and Macarthur ran the country for 5 years there after!! What development are you talking about? Perhaps you would want to see Armenia invaded or worse and have the west's influences forced upon us in this matter?

Goodwinson, You are right about Raffi. He was the first foreign minister of the Republic of Armenia.Raffi is right about his detailed letter, right on the money.But, why is he not active in politics any more. Is he worried to be put away if he continues to be the opposition to the government. Raffi as American citizen moved to Armenia, the motherland to put his expertise to work. He certainly had a good start, being the first foreign minister. He should have continued and run for the presidency of Armenia. I am sure being American citizen as well as Armenian citizen would have gone long ways.

Almost all treaties, which Turkey starting from 1921 has signed with her neigbours, are either illegibly or being imposed from this or other way to them… Even US doesn’t recognize the Turkish borders, but Turkish territorial integrity Borders always use to change. Look back to the history. Turkish is well aware of the fact of Armenian Genocide, therefore she will remain always paranoia unless she faces her bloody past! I am not much intrested just in one more another Armenian Genocide resolution by US Congress and so on . What is important for me: There can not be an “historian commission” with a denial state and Armenian Genocide is not an article of trade! Armenia and Armenian Diaspora should be resolute in this issue!

B. Baronian doesn't get it. The major difference between Malaysia, Japan etc is that the the destroyers of the Armenian People are bent on continuing that job. Tell me in the history of Armenians, when has salvation EVER come from anyone else? The Russians? The Americans? The Europeans? Armenians need to have one voice and one vision. We need to stick together in one cause. Period! Sargsyan the corrupt traitor and his kind have to go!

Antranik not sure I follow your trend of thought...What do you mean?

Mr Baronian The answer to your question is,bribe tham play them at their own game.

Armen...no-one ever said Armenians are peasants and if they were...it is most certainly an honorable profession... You need to shake the chip off your shoulder and wake up to world economic realities. How do you think Singapore or Malaysia or Japan or Korea prospered...It is by inviting foreigners to set up factories...it helps build infrastructure and exports.

Raffi, Don't get too philosophical... Get out there and kick ass.

Well said! Now Raffi, wake up and get in the game, you can't be hiding during these tough times! and to Baronian's comment below: Armenians are no peasants to wait for americans, europeans and chinese to come open manufacturing plants!

Raffi, Great letter! I really feel as though it represents clearly what a large part of the Armenian population in Armenia and the Diaspora opine. I just have one main concern: that the West doesn't care at all about Armenia, or Turkey for that matter. As a citizen of both the US and France and having lived in both those places throughout my life, I really feel as though there are no real sentiments of genuine sympathy within government policies of those places. There might be isolated individuals within government that might express characteristics that correlate to sympathy for Armenian interests, but no general cohesion to rally around what would be in the best interest of Armenia, Turkey, and both. The Diaspora might need to focus their efforts on not only advocating for Genocide recognition or aid to Armenia (infrastructure, city planning, science, education, etc.), but also in remodeling the perception of what Armenian interests are and how they can align directly with Western interests.

He must have been elected the president, and not the current corrupt hooligan, who used to clean gutters in the past.

Raffi's inactiveness in the political arena of Armenia is as disappointing as the treacherous protocols. He could be the leader of the opposition.....

Eleoquent, clear and to the point. How do you convince the RA parliament not to ratify the protocol? How do you get the Americans and the West to continue their support for the Armenian cause and to pressure Turkey to recognize the Genocide instead of encouraging it to continue on its current path. How do you get the Europeans, Chinese, Americans and Russian to start building manufacturing infrastructure in Armenia to create real employment and economic growth without which the country is condemned to remain a victim of the countries surrounding it.

Good and clever man. He must be the nest president of Armenia. Sargsyan- GO!!!!