Why does the Turkish denial machine not engage the diasporan Armenians? If this is all about talking, why not talk to ANSLA?

Sireli Satik, It does not logically follow that to assert a claim to a historically Armenian territory that borders Armenia is the equivalent of asserting a claim to a diaspora territory far from Armenia. Julfa and Isfahan are diasporas. There is nothing "Fake" about me or my patriotism. If and when Artsakh is attacked, I will drop what I am doing, leave my wife and daughter, and rush to join the defenders, rifle in hand. That is a sacred vow that I have made and that I will keep. In the meantime, I have visited Armenia twice and Artsakh once. I spent $23,000.00 of my very hard earned money during those trips. It is not a lot of money compared to what others have spent, but it was a lot for me. The money that I spent provided employment in Armenia for taxi drivers, waiters and waitresses and other restaurant employees, tour guides and bus drivers, ticket agents and other employees at the Zvardnotz airport and the Air-France Yerevan offices, hotel staff, and the owners and families of the stores where I made numerous purchases and the artists whose paintings I bought. "Refusing to live and die on your knees" are indeed brave and powerful words. Instead of marginalising and discounting them, for the sake of the nation, and for your own sake, embrace them and live by them.

Sorry, Armenian Realist, but I must disagree. Being realistic does not mean advocating war on yet another neighbor. I mean, what does Armenian stand to gain by making claims for Javakh except to create an enemy out of Georgia. If we think like you, then why not declare war on Iran too and ask for Julfa and Ishfahan? hey that too is historically important for Armenians. And living on our knees is such heroic language, but when your kids are starving and in need of decent education (like lots of Armenian kids in villages and areas beyond Yerevan's golden center), people try to make PEACE and develop the economy. Not wage more war on neighbors all in the name of patriotism. What is needed is a reform of the country and ways o end the corrupt, oligarchic regime. Not this fake (yes FAKE) patriotism. Very easy to be patriotic when all your other problems are solved. Try telling that to the pazmazavak mayr in Gyumri who lives in poverty.

"Abrahamyan, meanwhile, says that these territories should first be populated by Armenians and only then the border should be opened." Lol, congradulations Mr. Abrahamyan. What is your plan for Western Armenian lands? How many civilians do you plan to massacre or deport for your dear Erzurum, Van, etc? One of the Armenian versions of Talat Pasha. It is sad to see this childish stuff in Armenianow, vax, vax.

actually 'make ends meet' or 'survive' might be a better expression than 'better life' in my previous post. Also, tradtionally Armenians have been leaving places like Lebanon (to France or the US) not in search of democracy but to escape violence and for economic stability

"If Armenia represented a healthy thriving democracy with a settled rule of law applicable to everyone, diasporan Armenians would flock to the country and it would be tranformed." since independence 800,000 Armenians moved to Russia not because they were dreaming of a thriving democracy, but dreaming of a better life! Several thousand Armenians are also in Turkey for the same reason

Satik. Based on your comments, I feel that maybe the Armenian President and Foreign Minister have in fact realistically appraised the character of their citizenry and know that no further national aspirations can be expected of them. After all, what can you expect of a people that litters the gravesites of their fallen heroes and the rest of their country with trash. Go ahead and live and die on your knees. After all, with a few exceptions, Armenians have been doing that forever, why should we stop now.

The question is Where is Our Armenian Heritage and values, it's all gone nothing left since all came to this country and try be milliner by drugs, gangs and other things we lost our land and our heritage, came back from Armenia a week ago just like gang land you pay you have from prostitution to luxury life Where is our Armenian values......... Shame on us.

Mr. Obamanian, it seems some Armenian citizens are blaming diasporans for investing all their power in genocide recognition and not enough in changing the system in Armenia. As if Genocide recognition concerns only spurk and not defend current Armenia from Turkish ideologies... And they want spurk to declare war on the corrupt system in Armenia, and lobby in the united states to instigate a coup in Armenia. This of course is very naive, Georgia is a good example, the change started within... anything other than that will alienate Spurk from at least half of Armenian citizens... it feels that if Armenia was democratic and 'wealthy' they would prefer if no spurk call themselves Armenian and never return to live in Armenia, probably not wanting to share the wealth with foreigners. Some citizens just want to use the spurk and never treat them as equal Armenians, while true Armenians in spurk and Hayasdan should think how they should be neighbors again...

Armenian Realist has proposed a good solution to the litter problem in Armenia, but diasporan Armenians have no interest in relocating to Armenia to "realise their aspirations". If Armenia represented a healthy thriving democracy with a settled rule of law applicable to everyone, diasporan Armenians would flock to the country and it would be tranformed.

We should have a massive population exchange between Armenia and the Diaspora. Diasporan Armenians should liquidate their assets and move to Armenia where they can work on realizing their aspirations to restore Armenia's patrimony and, at a minumum, pick up all the trash that litters the country. The Hayastantsis can move to Los Angeles and other points West where they can live on welfare, and engage in fraud and crminal gang activity. Isn't that what everybody wants? Sounds like a win-win to me!

"I am talking about an unbreakable will to succeed as evidenced by Monte Melkonian and the brave heroes of Karabagh. We could have accomplished a great deal already if we were not "diplomatic illiterates" as correctly stated by an Armenian analyst. When Russia invaded Georgia, we could have jumped on the opportunity to reclaim Javakh. We owe the Georgians NOTHING" I agree with your last statement. Georgian nationalists have behaved very provocatively in Javakhk. But such an adventure would be very risky. A war between Armenia and Georgia would be a nightmare. Better to work by raising the profile internationally to pressure Georgia to respect the rights of Armenians there. The unbreakable will to succeed in Karabakh depended on the will of the Karabakh people to win their freedom. Unfortunately there are no Armenians left in Van, Erzerum, Kars. But even 100 years ago many (I would say the majority) of Armenians in those areas were not interested in struggling for independence. The dream of a small number of people to win historic Armenia lands is meaningless! When Gen Antranik became in charge of Erzerum no more than 300 Armenians were willing to fight. As a result the city quickly fell to Ottoman forces. Massacres followed as ottomans advanced east.

If he is so patriotic, why does he live in France? Why not go and live in Gyumri? Goris or any other border zone. The man is a nut case. As for Armenian Realist, are you serious? Taking back Javakh? What one unresolved bloody conflict not enough for you? Do you need more war? Or are you another patriot living in France and telling Hayastanzis what to do?

Is this guy kidding or just jobless in France and has a lot of time? Please tell me that this kind of people are not really taken seriously in Armenia? This is nuts!

Better first have honest and less corrupt official, who do not, thinking to lie and cheat the nation! Hours before secret Armenian Turkish protocols were made public; BBC did publish an interview given by Serzh Sarkisyan . In his interview Serzh Sarkisyan deliberately ignored the fact, that his administration had already agreed to an “historian commission” to investigate “impartially” Armenian History … Today the current administration is bringing the attention of People to “Shushi”- a trap and attempts to cheat the nation once again… it seems he (Serjic) has been forced to agree to release at least 5 regions of NKR before Turkey could ratify the protocols and gives her final green light/approval for the creation of “historian commission”..

arevelk you are right but ANI is more than a just "church or "churches". Ararat and ANI are Armenia ... HA: For authorities seem Armenia is there area from “President Office” till “Republic square“! Even the media reporting almost nothing about the life in other parts of the Republic! I don’t understand why is this not possible for the authorities e.g. to organize the celebration of independence day in Gyumri, Megri or Goris ?

Random Armenian Can you please enlighten us by laying out in detail how a militant action against Turkey would bring back Western Armenia? I will be happy to. I am talking about the same kind of militant will to fight for our patrimony that enabled the Vietnamese to defeat the US, that enabled the Afghans to throw out the Russians and eventually the US, and that will eventually defeat the US in Iraq. I am talking about an unbreakable will to succeed as evidenced by Monte Melkonian and the brave heroes of Karabagh. We could have accomplished a great deal already if we were not "diplomatic illiterates" as correctly stated by an Armenian analyst. When Russia invaded Georgia, we could have jumped on the opportunity to reclaim Javakh. We owe the Georgians NOTHING. What have they done for us other than to occupy our historic land and oppress us. Georgia would have been powerless to stop us. Russia would have supported us. Why should Abkhazia and South Ossetia have 50 year defense pacts with Russia, but Karabagh does not? Because, like the "diplomatic illiterates" that we are, we instead invite the Georgian leader, a Western puppet, and honor him with the highest civilian medal thereby earning the enmity of the only great power that we can look to for military help, namely Russia. A defeatist mentality is fatal both to an individual and to a collective people. Choose not to live and die on your knees.

I visited Gyumri in 1997 and last year. Slight changes: Government buildings, Vartan Mamigonian's ugly monument in the center of republic square... protecting the famous mayor. Old Gyumri still in ruins, Amenaprgitch Cathedral still under construction, people still living in bunkers. People of Gyumri have jobs now, couple of friends work for the Russian gas company and installing heating systems, everything takes time.

"What a beauty: Ani cathedral. " Yes true. For some time Ani (like Kars) was inside the Russian empire (until 1920 when it was made part of Turkey). In theory, some Armenians could have done restoration work at the time (true, Russian authorities were not always helpful), but I am not sure if they did. There are similar churches inside Armenia and Karabakh today, in a very bad state of repair. How many Armenians are concerned about them? If Ani was inside Armenia now, would its churches be in a better state of repair?

ArmenianRealist, Can you please enlighten us by laying out in detail how a militant action against Turkey would bring back Western Armenia?

What is the point in talking about the "territorial claims" of Armenians when any Turk, Kurd or Azeri can walk into Armenia with an open cheque book and buy any piece of land they want for about the same price as a loaf of bread? Once the border is open there is nothing to stop Turkish people crossing over to buy land for housing an that is what will happen. Armenians will sell up and move somewhere else - perhaps to Los Angeles?

What a beauty: Ani cathedral.

"Some political analysts, unlike Abrahamian and his supporters, think that in the case of the return of Western Armenian lands, currently populated by Kurds (15 million) to Armenia, Turkey will do great harm to Armenia. " Why are "some political analysts" so simple minded? Why would the return of historical lands be such an abrupt maneuver, as abrupt as the Genocide? There are countless political, legal, social, and economic procedures that could make such a transition not only feasible, but also beneficial to the Armenians and the Kurds. Anyone heard of Israel? Foolish political analysts! Are you working for the Turks? Instead of striving to re-instating our lands back in phases, they are working on giving up Karabagh in phases.

“If Western Armenia is returned to Armenia, then Armenia will face the Kurdish issue. What will we, less then three million Armenians with our mentality of leaving for Los Angeles, do against 15 million Kurds?” says Keryan. What ignorance and, even worse, what a defeatist attitude. I can only hope that the heroes of the Karabagh war did not sacrifice their lives for the likes of such an attitude. Much of Western Armenia is not populated by Kurds or anyone else. In fact, Ani is frequently referred to as a Ghost town. This is the bottom line. Once enough Armenians become truly militant about their rights, just like the heroic defenders of Karabagh, then nothing, absolutely nothing, can stop us from regaining Western Armenia, Javakh and the rest of our patrimony. However, if the Keryan attitude prevails, the cause is indeed lost and we might as well cut our losses on being Armenian. You choose.