OK,then lets just agree that we havent changed much since '91. Unfotunately in this case, there is a saying... Every nation is worth its leaders.

no one said there was not looting, corruption, in Levon's time, and we may say he did an awful job in putting things together in the first years of independence. But understand this: it is one thing to be ineffective, to be helpless, to be weak, in the face of a massive rotten soviet left system and mindset, and it is another thing to criminilize and patron the system yourself. This is what Serjik and his cheif is doing. We have to see this fine line.. i will say no more on this. Although by all means you have to right to have your own opinion, I find it presumptious to say 'majority' of people, have you ever seen the massive rallies just before the elecetion, 10 day non-stop rallies..etc. Even with this images in my mind I will not assert that he indeed had majority support, contrary to Serjik who only had piece paper with a predetermined number signed by his cronies in the KEH and propoganidsized by H1 as clear victory! Anyway, as the saying goes "those who have eye's let them see" one more small not, (more of a character attitude): Even 99% of a population find someone guilty then he is still not guilty untill a due just court procedure has taken place.. remember even the Nazis were given the right of trial and court...

Switzerland? where did you fine that word in my comments? What about trying to stop all the looting back then,enforcing rule of LAW,be like for example Latvia,or Romania,or Lithuania or at least like Turkey,who has more democracy then we do.. But you Tigran jan,think we had just 2 choices in our first 8 years,to be like we have been so far, or to be a Switzerland. We could do much better and you accept it or not Levon is the one who started this tradition and this crooked rejime, I and majority of our people found him guilty for that and we dont need any court's approval.Thats why he asks "to use him as a tool" only,he knows he has a dirty rear end..

Anarchist> You quoted me, but you cannot still find the word "innocence" there, can you?. I already explained why I "innocence/ guilty" discussion not for us to judge. If he is guilty then why he is not charged? I don't think serjik robik would have lost any bloody detail on finding something on him to throw him in a cell... and 8 years to do what? if you expected to have Switzerland style life, with a seat in UN security Council in 8 years, then I am sorry to say its was an illusion, unfortuneatly lots of Armenians fell in.

the word innocent ? - " Short note on Levon's times: The regular corruption by mid level ex-soviet beurocrats,and the all the baggage (you name it) was there, we inherited it from the Soviets. There was no excape from this and Levon even if he was an angle could do nothing in one day; "...Tigran Besides he didnt have one day, he had 8 years..

Hargeli Anarchist, Where did you find the word "innocent" in my postings? I did not say such thing. This does not mean though that, he is "guilty". "guilty/innocent" discussion satisfies moral normative dimension and says nothing about the reality. I appreciate your commitment to focus on facts. Also remember that equal to lie is the partial truth; (when we pick up only those facts that support our hypothesis) You rightly mention "Check and Balance",and I encourage you to compare the system today and 10 years ago. Focus on measurable facts, like number of times the parliamnet oppoesed the government, number of heated debates, mutual check..etc. I am sure you will discover interesting insights and see that today that Balance almost does not exist in the formal structures of power.

Tigran jan, You were the one who mantioned Levon, his "innocent" days and "honest" team... I am not afraid of the truth, be it about Levon or Serj or Robert. I dont care. I just see and remember the facts and the job they did.Its easy and simple. Checks and balances,always! Thats when we'll have the right results and fair society.

Hargeli Me-me and anarchist> What you have writen to large extent is no different than cheap Serjik Robik made propoganda of: "Levon is the source of all evil and becuase of him the evil endures, and hence everyone who commits a crime or tramples on others rights is justified becuase Levon the evil once..." Hargeliners, please stop this. We had enough of it for last 10 years and quite enough indeed during the elections. I am sorry, but I can't reply to what you have written for 2 reason: 1- The above mentioned line of thought is completely flawed, and is been crushed here on this website and elsware in previous discussions and discourses, so I'll spare the readers of this site the replay of the story. 2- those comments are outside of this topic zone and not pertaining to the topic according to the website policy. I encourage everyone to continue the discussion with more realist/critical appraoch

Tigran, I agree with you on Bjni(I respect Grzo as a businessman) and have commented on it.I want to ask you how old have you been during Levon's presidancy? Levon is the GUILTIEST part in all of this. By 1991-92 almost all of the ex-soviet beurocrats were out and by end of 1994 Levon's HHSh was dominating,everywhere! Starting with police comissioners, and mayors, and governors...It was the same system as today,state mafia,total corruption just smaller amounts of money,cause there was less investments,newer market,less money in republic over all, thats all.Anyway,my point is: Levon was the first one. Finaly,after 1000 years,we had a chance to build. He had a chance to build,to put a tradition, to show an example, to change the soviet mentality,people loved him and voted for him,i remember that day was like a holyday...What he gave us,a "good" tradition, '95 and '96 "elections". Did he say sorry for that? NO. So please, dont fall for that "ex-soviet beurocrats" crap. After 1988's Powerfull Artsakh movement and '94 Victoriuos war, our people was ready and willing to change!He broke our backs and distroyed many hopes. What he did during 94-98 peace time? Not a single step to build a legal system and country of law,he just gave a carte blanche to Vano and Vazgen (with all do respect,may he rest in peace..) Todays reality and todays values, totaly his school.And NOT the people,for whom he said sorry,but THE SYSTEM!!! People have to fight for his rights,every single day,every single issue, everyone. If it not happens and people fall asleep,there will be no rule of law and no justice. Unfortunately our people is not ready for it yet,when it is,the right Leader will born itself.

Tigran I do not regard Levin a Tavajan. Levon time has gone, he had his roll and chance in 90´s! During election campaign in 2007/2008 Levon was just a tool in the hands of our enemies and after the election thanks to the actions of Levon and his team Turkish is able to play with Serj Sarkisjan ( I hope I am mistaken, we have to wait a mire couple months)! ! People who chanting "levon, Levon, Levon president" deserve in some way the current regime and the president elected, because there is almost no difference between Serjic´s regime and the one in 90´s lead by Levon and HHsh. So what will people achieve by replacing these to men? NOTHING- Beside this there is a problem with the mentality of our politicians etc During rule of Levon there were many political motivated murders. Non of these murders where disclosed the same is about plunder of state budget and mismanagement by well know people During Levons´s rule we had nothing but a Directed Democracy today the situation is not better, So why are people trying to justify Levons´s regime, when they are against Directed Democracy (or a power which is engaged in divide and rule)? The foundation of today’s Directed Democracy in Hayastan is being laid by Levobn/HHSh ! In some way we have even a bit more foredoom of media today! We better bury Levon´s regime and look forward, make the current regime to implemet real reforms and give licence to A1 etc and shut down so called radio free ...!

Me-me> Short note on Levon's times: The regular corruption by mid level ex-soviet beurocrats,and the all the baggage (you name it) was there, we inherited it from the Soviets. There was no excape from this and Levon even if he was an angle could do nothing in one day; But this is serious about BJNI why? for the first time, we see the whole aparatus of power being mobolized against busnisses. This is not only morally,legally, politically wrong. It is a 'killing' stap for the economy and the principles of free market. they spent millions of IMF money to create a 'market economy' and here a bunch of AVAZAGNER kill it in one day. Where are all the economist? let them sound up? Students of economics are not there only for getting PHDs and MBAs and showing off, they should be sounding the alarms by now!

@Tigran There is no need to justify Levon´s regime – His rule was undemocratic and corrupt like the successive regimes ! If Levon was a talented politician he wouldn’t make Armenia and NK to sign a cease fire regime in 1994 without getting anything! In 1994 NK frces where on the way to Kirovabad to force the enemy to make just peace !! Maybe I am mistaken but for me it seems: Armenia politicians and political forces (this includes Levon &co Serjic &co, Dashnaks and Hentchaks ..) are very talented when it comes todevelop a plan and strategy hoe to fight there opponents , there ex-friends, there companies in arms BUT all these Armenian political forces are failing , when it come to fights the capricious enemy of Armenian people . Maybe these people (they calle themselves politicians and “leaders”) should just imagine they are going to fight there Ex-friends, there opponents and companies in arms, while dealing with Turks and Turk.Azeris. I am sure they will start to show there talents … ! A group of people (trader, salesmen) in government are turning Armenia just to be a consume society. For this they are thankful for money donations from aboard to the families! Diaspora Armenians and businessmen should invest only in the segment of Armenian economy, when they are sure the money or donation will be used to create jobs and make sure that the money will not be spend to help the domestic production in Asia or aboard (this includes starting importuning all kinds of household appliance (fork, TV etc)

I italy sayin-who prepared Vendetta have to be ready for the same.Nice words!!!

Shame on you guys in goverment,vendetta is mafia terminology,you will be punished by God!

What means Vendetta?Mafia?This is Armenia now.No govermental mentality in Goverement but there is mafia mentality inside of the Goverment.Punish for political opposite thinking.Closed one of the famous Armenian brand for that.Imagine-today closed Coca-cola for supporting McCain-impossible. God punish you guys,be carefull,change your mind today,tommorow will be late!

ArmeniaNow,at first thanks for article!very important thing included inside of it.Political vendetta to opposite side,what it means.Vendetta to people who want to live in low,these are 75% of our electorate,Armenian electorate.these are not only Jangiryan,Malxasyan or Sukiasyan.These are our people.Vendetta-terminology of mafia,but not for the people who stands at the power of state,Armenian state.Punish.For what?For paying more taxes in Armenia?Introducing Armenian Bjni and Noy brand all over the world?saying truth about corruption?having thousands of employes?God punish them for such vendetta.And such a people go to Church?!Why?

I like bjni and noy and i hate politics.

me-me> well said, during levon may be no chance but at least, 'no oppression', and the economy was just recovering so chances were just about to come.. what happened is that the chances came but Robik made sure his people will only benefit from it, Serjik in return is making sure only those who support him and hiz 'Avazakapetutiun' can eat from the table... Sukyassian's mistake was very big and very simple: he wanted to pay taxes to the government budget and not to Serjik' personal pocket, and he is being punished. Learn the rule!

Current Armenia is more like Turkmenistan under Turkmenbashi. The only difference is that presently we have 2 Karabaxbashis, who not only falsified all previous elections, but also started harrassing businesses like Bjni, etc. Why they do not harass Armavia or businesses of G, Tsarukyan? Maybe they work according to EU standards unlike Mr. Tsarukyan?

@Anarchist You are right... this is unacceptable and SHAME! In other countries governments are spending tax money to create new jobs or secure jobs but in Armenia the opposite is happening! - Still during Levon´ regime small businesses had no chance , it was not easy to get support form government agencies etc.. - During Robert´s rule there were just well know oligarch’s in control of almost every business Today, this is not enough just to be an oligarchs, there is going to be two classes of oligarchs: The privileged ones and the rest (unprivileged ones ) .. Why are so called businessmen going to be involved in such way in politic in order to defend his interessts:

There will be no Bjni and NOY in the shops for the consumers, there will be no jobs for the employees of the factory, there will be no exports of BJNI and NOY waters, there will no taxes paid by the factory to the budget of the country, there will be no... It is not acceptable.

Grzo is one f the best businessmen in Armenia. Shame on government! To take the steps in this wrong direction. It is bad not only for Sukiassyans but also for Armenian economy as SIL was one of the biggest in RA.

I dont like Levon,cause I dont believe him and most of people around him. And there is a conflict of interests for Grzo to stand for Levon (Qavor-Sanik with Vano S.) But what happened to Grzo is unacceptable. And its not right to compare him with Khodorkovski. He is much cleaner and more honorable. So i wish him all the best and SHAME on those who wants to punish him like this. !

I think and I am sur that Hayko is included with his dirty oligarch and mafioz friends like Serj Rob ,Dodo Gago,Lefik Samo, and the Mug.

Where is the problem, why are people in Diaspora surprise reading such articles? Soon government will allow just another "businessman, maybe he is seating already in parliament" to import drinking water from Turkey using buckets made of Russia, Iran or China … The next program is to allow import of home-baked “lawasch” from Mongolia --- there is only an exceptions when it comes to produce Cigars as a kind of “All Armenian Anti-depressant Drugs” ... It wills takes 100´s years to have a middle class in Armenia! Armenia needs rich people, who are ready to make investment in the country but “oligarch’s” and a lack of rule of law and trust in counter’s institutions are destroying the future of young generation of Armenians!

Wow, this is sort of what happenned in Russia with Khodorkovski. Though Grzo isn't too clean himself, they should let the economy expand.

Woe unto us Armenians. Genocide by the turks didn't exterminate us but our compatriots are doing their best... We have also lost all faith, and can't even say "God help us"...

According to „Hayko“ we must assume, that dodi gago, alrakhatsi lyovik, pnti samo and all others together with their patrons serzh & robik are clean-handed, deeply patriotic and non-corrupt! Well, I just wish then, that Hayko’s ways crosses one day the way of one of the abovementioned guys.

Great news, first these filthy traitors must be removed from Armenia, when one business shuts down, another will rise. We do not need these anti-Armenian, corrupt criminals in Armenia. They started the 'oligarch' culture.